I used to play slicks n slide, great little game. I see GeneRally as its 'modern' equivalent with a similar ish and slightly more complex state.

Its probably a lot more simple in GeneRally, just a simple model, not one with 40+ variables.. I've done more GeneRally than just about any sim/game, it just doesn't get boring! But I don't think it has a hugely complex tyre model.

I'll try that! I **LOVE** GeneRally which has a very effective 'slip angle' type model that is a huge challenge and great fun. Pacejka soudns over the top... but physics can certainly apply to these games.

It is the slow evolution from chassis welded in wooden sheds with charismatic drivers and team owners, to big companies that have little to do with the actual building of the car and PR trained drivers.

When you run a 'high res' (not really by todays standards) windoze resolution I can't play the movies smoothly fullscreen; be that crappy youtube or better youtube.. At 1600x1200 its just choppy with 100% cpu load. :s

I forgot about the insanity of WTCC with the weight penalties; the whole series isn't based on 'may the most clever engineers win' but on 'make all the makes happy'..

Kind of useless series really isn't it!

Apparantly the fiver will go towards the sniper who is programmed to headshot everybody saying that 320kbps mp3 isn't good enough. Worth it!

Nah.. you DO.. but you Can't :P

Heya..

First we had 9-11 conspiracy theories, then the global warming and now.. Diesel engines!

I have this strange feeling that its not fair in both WTCC and Le Mans cars. The regulations on the WTCC site are dead links but afaik this is the case in WTCC:
- Diesel: 2 liter turbo (what do they get, 300hp?)
- Real fuel: 2 liter normally aspirated .. (close to 300hp?)

- 1980s turbo F1, 1.5 liter turbo (fairly reliable 800+ hp, sometimes 1000+)

I don't know about Le Mans, and worse, I don't really know about engines. If someone here does, I'm quite interested to hear about what WOULD be a fair comparisson. Simple thinking you'd say if a NA car is limited to non turbo and 2 liters, the same should go for a Diesel. If this non turbo diesel turns out to be 100hp short, then petrol has won and diesel should go back to vans and trucks.. Unless the fuel savings make the difference at places like le mans.

Or are there more things to consider to try and come up with a comparable set of rules so you could have a 'real' diesel vs na battle?

That'll be the case with most mods and all the default cars, due to inaccuracies in the physics entered by the creators and modders. It does not have to be so, if you put the 'poor tyres' on the corvette and try to provoke the rear end, applying opposite lock and balancing it with power and steering, does work fairly well, but a MOMO with its limited lock isn't that suited to driving road cars.

I'd try 0% speed sensitivity and 50% axis sensitivity and no more than 20degs of lock if its the corvette you're driving.

Make sure you get a very high framerate, and if you haven't done so already, set 'frames render ahead' to zero in a tool like RivaTuner. At 100+fps and this setting, your inputs will be immediate. For the corvette, the realfeel setting would be more like a max force of ~6500.

At the moment I'm working not so much on cars but on more excel based tools so I can 'spit out' cars much quicker and easier.

This will be used to make the faster cars from GTL, the gtc 76 class with BMW's, 911s, 906, Ford Capri, Corvette.. If that goes well, and the tools work, it might be that eventually the other classes in GTL will also be created using these tools and some of my views on cars.

These cars are quite good fun with often 300+ horsepower and 1100ish kg and some sort of grip from slicks but not too much. They are a bit more raw regarding torque curves and dampers. The experience sofar is that it will be quite an entertaining drive with plenty of 'movement' in the cars.

While rFactor certainly isn't ultra realistic, it seems simply going for realish numbers leads to cars that are fairly easy to mess around with (not to mention fun!) but getting those laptimes down is quite a challenge.

I hope it'll turn out well!

Alien, there is a world of difference between your opinion and the 'truth'.

Hey thats cool to hear Dave, indeed, too fast corner entry is deadly, slow in fast out is much better!

Would we consider driving on a 'polygon bumps only' (no artificial grip zones or sine wave bumps) version of the track? Target for the default C6 (stock tyres) is 8:30, with 8:10 certainly being possible..

this is the TDF I use (backup your old one).. It goes in the gamedata\locations\nords2007 directory.

Make sure to drive the normal tourist version if you want to try it out.

I've did a few 8:15s and remember thats NOT with the trackday tyres!

Hey Dave,

There *is* a 'zone' where you're not under or oversteering badly. Your feelings match with those of many, pretty bad understeer, applying too much lock, then when you boot it you get violent oversteer.

A change of style is probably required, and it is imo a good (perhaps not quite fully realistic) aspect of the corvette, you have to be carefull with it, nursing it around the grip limit. If not, you're under or oversteering. But when you find this neutral zone, the car comes to life and you find yourself making small corrections for oversteer or scrubbing some speed off with understeer.. No longer the 'big' versions of these two states.

Don't know if you've seen my old ish Ring video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY5ssFnBTCI

at 25 secs the righthander, the exit for example
at 1:50 the lefthander in 4th gear is still balancing
at 3:15, the twitch on downshift, and oversteer on exit
at 3:31, fairly balanced slightly oversteery exit (bumps did that)

Anyway, there are some more examples in that video. The main thing is that you have to avoid the understeer at all cost. IMO the driver is always to blame for understeer. When you do experience it, steering 'more' is something I still see from so many videos; yet it will just worsen the understeer.

When driven around its limit as the ring video somewhat ish-ly shows, there are plenty of twitches and slight 'worries' without too many extremes.

If this is all accurate, well probably not quite, but its not too bad and a very good excersize to adapt to the car

lol! ok.. its hardly an all new revision then..

Any change in feel or 'firmness' of the shifter? Any other differences spotted?

Part of a car is all sorts of losses, resulting in hot engines, transmissions, brakes.. I wonder how they get rid of the heat as wood doesn't conduct heat very well.

Champcar is a sinking ship. Perhaps there is room for one big series with bigger grids. Against Nascar, open wheel racing has to organize, which a merge of IRL and Champcar would exactly do.

Do you want a mixed oval / road course league, or no more 'premier' open wheel racing in America at all?

Indeed seems to be the much hated DFP is back. All this ''pure simulation'' crap is getting a bit annoying, as if GT5 with this poorish wheel is the best.. Wasn't it Bill Hicks who told all Marketing people to kill themselves? He had a point..

Not worth it imo. The default cars are poor. The full version allows you to get ''mods'' from the web, out of which 99% is pretty poor still, but the 1% is decent.

Heya lads,

It may come as no surprise that I'm working on some cars for rFactor; this time its basically the cars from GTL getting the handling they deserve, or at least I hope so!

Of the *utmost* importance is that I'm not going to guess values. I want to calculate everything that is important such as inertias, tyre properties, springs and dampers.. I have decent ideas about those.

Aero is another thing. I can get any lift / downforce on the front or rear axle that I want.. But I'd like to decide on the aero properties based on the shape of the car, not by guessing or 'tuning' too much.

So what I'd like to do is load a 2D side view or perhaps a simplified 3D model into software, spit airflow at it and measure the vertical force on front and rear axle. The results may not be VERY accurate, but at least they're the result of method and thought, not guessing and notepad.

I do have access to FloWorks, but 3D CFD might be a bit over the top. If any of you have any suggestions on software or ideas on how to do this kind of thing, Please shout!

/Nielz

Don't forget about d... umm T - Power!

Its the man, not the machine ((c) Chuck Yeager)

They all still look boaty and floaty to me, although it seems enthusia might have a slight edge over GT4..